uncertainty of what's going on in ukraine continues. lots at stake for all of us right now. tomorrow a special interview i'll have with marco rubio, the senator from florida. he'll join me in "the situation room." we'll talk about among other things what's going on in venezuela, and we'll talk about his future political aspirations, does he want to run for president in 2016. i know he's been asked that question many times. i'll ask him again tomorrow. the interview with marco rubio here in "the situation room" tomorrow. that's it for me. thanks for watching. you can always follow what's going on behind the scenes on twitter follow me @wolf blitzer. "crossfire" with missouri governor jay nixon and pat mccrory starts now. >> tonight on "crossfire," president obama picks a fight with the republican governors. today they hit back. >> this is an administration
that has not trusted the american people. we do trust the american people. we think they know better how to lead their lives. >> on the left, van jones. on the right, newt gingrich. in the "crossfire," jay nixon, the democratic governor of missouri. and pat mccrory, the republican governor of north carolina. are republican governors frustrating the president's agenda or saving their citizens from it? tonight on "crossfire." >> welcome to "crossfire." i'm van jones on the left. >> i'm newt gingrich on the right. in the "crossfire" tonight two governors who met with president obama today. and moments after that meeting, a handful of governors rushed to the microphones for their own mini edition of "crossfire." >> this president in the white house seems to be waving the white flag of surrender after more than five years in this administration. the obama economy is now the minimum wage economy.
>> i don't know what the heck was a reference to white flag when it comes to people making $404 a week. i mean, that's the most insane statement i've ever heard. >> so not satisfied with creating gridlock just in washington, president obama now is poisoning the traditionally nonpartisan governors ocean meeting and he started doing it thursday when he told democratic governors their republican colleagues are, quote, pursuing the same top-down failed economic policies that don't help americans get ahead. they're paying for it by cutting investments in the middle class. van, i thought this was a chance for the president to prove how post-partisan. >> post-partisan doesn't mean post-factual. post-factual, what he says is actually true, some of these republican policies are terrible. we'll talk about them tonight. you'll once again prove how good our policies are. in the "crossfire" we've got democratic governor jay nixon of
missouri and republican governor pat mccrory. i'm glad the president was speaking up for the truth here. in your state, north carolina, you actually cut almost more than any other state unemployment benefits, and it turned out to be a disaster. didn't create more jobs, about 70,000 people just quit looking for work. how can you justify along with the rest of the republican party hurting unemployed americans who are looking for work every day? >> your speaking points are dead wrong. >> well, correct me. >> when i was elected last november and was sworn in on january 5th, sworn at on january 6th, our unemployment rate was the fifth highest in the nation, 9.4%. i had to take some immediate action to reduce unemployment. and that action resulted in the largest drop in unemployment in the country in north carolina. we're now below 7%, 6.9%, the largest drop in unemployment. now if you consider that to be a disaster -- >> hold on a second now. i've looked behind these talking
points. and your, talk about talking points. >> they're just facts. they're just facts. we were the fifth highest unemployment rate in the country, we're not even in the top 30 any more. >> the reason for that is not because so many people got jobs but a lot of people quit looking. a lot of people don't understand when you're on unemployment you're getting paid to look for a job. and when you get that rug taken out from under you, people quit. isn't it true that you have the biggest contraction in your labor force in your state's history because of your policies? >> our contraction is the same rate a z the rest of the nation, in fact slight below the rest of the nation and you have to look at the baby boomers. but in the next month or two we'll have the first net increase in jobs in north carolina in the past five years. i consider those very successful policies. this is a governor willing to make tough policies similar to what the governor had -- >> are you applauding his strategy of devastating these unemployed workers?
>> i'm not exactly sure what his strategy is. i know we're all working together as governors to try to create jobs and focus our attention on the best development tool there is, that's education, preschool, high school, making college more affordable. we spend a lot of our time making sure that people who want to get training get that training. we have shared work in missouri so if you're untrained you can get employment at the same time. we're trying to bring people to improve ourselves so we can work our way out. >> the unemployment is just one idea. we also had to pay back $2.5 billion that we owed the federal government and one decision i had to make -- a very tough decision. these are not easy decisions by republican or democratic governor, we had to cut off the credit card that we owed to the federal government and start paying down the debt at the state level. we thing that will create jobs. >> creating jobs is, i think, for most american, still central five years into a very, very long slow recovery. the best stud by the
congressional budget office is if we raise the minimum wage it will kill a half million job, average is between zero and a million. in that context, are you really comfortable advocating a higher minimum wage even if it would kill jobs? >> first of all, missouri has minimum wage. it's already indexed to inflation. i support increasing the minimum wage, giving folks a raise, but bottom line what i really support is getting people the education and the training they need to get a lot more than the minimum wage but get a broader opportunity. that's why we triple the preschool and have more rigorous standings and have the lowest tuition of any state in the country. >> if you look at average unemployment in europe, you're really testing different societies, the countries that have a minimum wage have 13.8% unemployment on average. the countries that don't have a minimum wage are at 6.3%. these countries aren't cheap countries. this is austria, germany,
switzerland, sweden, there's a whole group of them. doesn't it raise the question, to your point, which is instead of fighting politically over the minimum wage we ought to be maximizing apprenticeships, worker training, opportunities to invest to actually get people above the minimum wage by having a buoyant economy not slowing it down. >> as i said, i support increasing the minimum wage. that's not my long-term economic plan. that's to make sure that everybody lives up to their god-given potential. that's why we focus so much attention. you talk about european countries, one of the things we have is to allow students in high school to get college credits, allow students to graduate sooner and have high impact internships in the summer. >> he's talking about education. >> absolutely. >> you actually cut education and you did something else that's i think is pretty shocking. you actually raised taxes on working families while you cut taxes on the rich. how do you morally justify that being a good, you know, moral
christian man like yourself, how do you cut taxes for the rich and then raise taxes on working families? >> again, your numbers are totally wrong. what we did was we lowered taxes for everyone, every working person in north carolina we lowered the income tax in fiscal income. >> sales tax. >> sales tax like -- >> which hits ordinary people pretty hard, right? >> it was the democratic legislature that raised the sales tax before i came in and the democratic governor before i. but the point is very similar to this, what i had to do was make our state more competitive for business. when you're the fifth highest unemployment rate in the country you don't want to keep the same tax system in which your neighbors are beating you for jobs. i want to create jobs just like governor nixon and it's working. >> but he's making a case i think that newt's made many times, the importance of education. >> we agree. >> why then the cuts to education? if you're talking about building a long-term future for your state, how do you justify the
kinds of cuts that you put through -- and you have cut taxes for wealthy people. >> we've cut taxeses for everyone, for everyone. >> are you going to -- >> corporate tax, we cut the -- we had the highest corporate tax and the highest income tax in the southeast and we were losing jobs in north carolina. >> you did not -- you are going to say here on national television -- you're going to be fact checked on this, you know -- >> the only sales tax we raised in my administration was the sales tax on movie tickets. when you go to a movie now, everyone has to pay 50 cents more. i'm sorry. i'm sorry we hurt hollywood. but you have to pay 50 cents more to go to the movies. and that money's going to help go pay for schools. that's what we want. >> let me ask you a little bit about jobs. your state has a very, very important role in terms of coal and fossil fuels, you have the largest coal company in the world i think is headquartered in your state. what's your reaction? you're a solid, moderate
democrat who is committed to the party, but what's your reaction to the degree to which the environmental protection agency has been really waging war on coal and doing what it can to basically drive coal out of use given the importance of coal to missouri? >> first of all we have to accept climate change and we all have a joined responsibility to do things to make that better. but i should also note that the air in our state and our country is getting cleaner. our focus is providing low cost energy and for a number of years we're still going to have to have coal and consequently we're looking at commonsense type of regulations as well as putting in new scrubbers and make sure that we are doing what we can to make sure that that air gets cleaner over the long haul. >> i can't believe we've gotten halfway through the show and we still haven't talked about the big protest movement that's been roiling the waters in your state. >> these guys from wisconsin -- >> well, some of those policies
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welcome back in the "crossfire" tonight we've got two governors, missouri governor jay nixon and north carolina governor pat mccrory. north carolina who we have represented here has become a case study of what happens when the far right grabs power and uses it to ram through an extremist agenda. in fact, people of all colors are actually taking to the streets now in this protest movement they call moral mondays. now why are they so upset? governor mccrory actually promised he was not going to
restrict abortion right, but he didn't mean it because now if your life's in danger -- unless your life is in danger or you're a victim of rape or an incest victim, no abortion for you. he changed the voting laws, 318,000 registered voters can't vote because they don't have the kind of i.d.s he wants them to have. plus he cut the taxes for the rich, we checked it, it's true. so if republicans spread these policies nationally, you might find yourself marching, too. now back to you. >> i'm glad you're not with the obama administration. the facts are just dead wrong. we have not idea added -- before you interrupt me, let me state your facts. first of all we've not added one new regulation which restricts abortions. not one. you've got to quit reading the signs from the protesters. we do require voter i.d. starting in 2016 where people have three years to get a free i.d., the exact same i.d. that's required -- let me finish. wait a minute. i gave you a chance. >> but i want to ask you about
that. >> the exact same i.d. you need to get sudafed. that is just commonsense legislation. and the vast majority well over 70% of the people both republicans and democrats agree with that legislation. >> did you make it easier or harder for people to vote early? >> actually, we now have the -- >> did you or did you not restrict -- >> the exact same number of hours are for vote early as before. the exact same number of hours. >> i guess the reason they're out there protesting is you're not being fair to our audience by talking about the hours when you know that you actually made it harder for people to vote. >> in fact, we made it easier. now someone works till 8:00 or 9:00, we'll have polls open until 8:00 or 9:00. that makes it easier for people to vote. don't you agree with that. a lot of people work first, second and third shifts. >> that part is good, sir. >> thank you. i got a compliment.
governor, i got a compliment from him. >> a historic moment. sir -- >> i'm still trying to figure out how getting something that makes meth is part of voting, same thing to get pseudoephedrine is what you use to vote. i'll leave that to the others. i don't think voting should be that hard. we should all work to make it easy. our responsibility is to make sure it's constitutional. >> why do you say, oh, come on? 70% or 80% of the country actually thinks we should have some proof that the person who is voting is legally an american citizen and is legally allowed to vote. >> and some proof, nobody has a problem with. the problem now is you have 318,000 people that are disproportionately african-american and they're disproportionately people who vote against you and part of the problem we have with you is you crush rush through these crazy laws that hurt people and now you're rigging the system so people have a hard time voting
against you. >> explain something. >> i ran on it. >> georgia was a fore-runner in doing this. >> yes. >> you get a free card, okay, let's start with that. it's free. in the case in north carolina, you have three years. my view is if the people are so enthusiastically marching on mondays spent every monday getting people to get their cards. >> guess what the marchers' directions were? bring a photo i.d. to the march. isn't that ironic? they were marching against i.d.s -- >> wait a minute. >> we have instructions from the unions were to bring your photo i.d. >> we have a lot more stuff you to get through. >> you have to admit that's funny. >> i would love honestly for us to have a whole show on this. >> we welcome that. >> this is a great talking point that you guys have, but in practice what we found is that over and over again people who are low income people, seniors and others do have the ability
to approve in their precincts, they don't have that birth certificate, some people don't have the time to go do it. you should be making that easier for people to vote not harder. >> do you want to comment? >> we want to help people to vote. saying you have to get some other i.d. and the same i.d. to get methamphetamines? >> sudafed? i think the vast majority of people are using sudafed for legal reasons. >> we should do a show on the -- >> the bottom line is i don't think that's a very good example. >> all right. same i.d. you need to get food stamps. >> check out other things. we can go to the other stuff if you want to. like how cozy you are with duke energy. >> i think this is an important issue. and i don't think it's truly partisan. as you said a vast majority of democrats agree. governor, do you have zero worries about accurate voting and accurate counting that anybody who wants to randomly shows up and announces that this
is their first time, they're here and by the way, they might show up at five different precin precincts? >> there's no worries about 100% anything. bottom line is we need to get as many people voting as possible and saying that folks who have lived in the same home for 50 year, we require them to get some other i.d. than what they've been doing in their community for 50 >> i agree with that. can we talk about something -- >> so you want to talk about botox. >> let many ask about the voters, because i'm fascinating in missouri, which is a very complicated state. you had 71% of your voters in a referendum say they did not want the obama mandate. you had -- the obamacare mandate, you had two-thirds of the voters saying another referendum they did not want the state set up website in exchange with the government.
in a sense, as the leader of the state, isn't that a pretty strong mandate to be for helping change obamacare rather than helping protect it? >> well, clearly we want to change health care and make health care better. we have a unique tool to do that. 100% federal dollars for the next few years, cms wide open for waivers, governors working together to try to open up to put personal responsibility in that situation. look at what's been going on in iowa with being able to have pilot projects for non-emergency medical transportation. that's great. i mean, looking at having premiums in a medicaid program and co-pays, all of the reforms are right within our grasp if we work together to move forward to use these resources so that working folks, and the other thing, it's the right thing to do. if you're working, you aught to have health care. >> i think the biggest issue for us is washington passed the bill, you can debate the policy one way or the other, but washington passed the bill in which they had no idea how to execute the bill, and the
problem is the states don't know how to execute the bill and we were not involved in the writing of the bill. that was nancy pelosi -- >> hold on, stay here, we are about to talk presidential politics and we want you to participate. you have to hear what jeb bush said earlier today when he was asked about running for president in 2016. he recounted what an obama supporter told him back in 2007. >> he looked at me and goes, we had a bush, then we had a clinton, then we had a bush, then we're going to have a clinton, and then he turned to me and said, and then we're going to have a bush. so i get the point. i get the point. and it's something that if i was to run, i would have to overcome that. and so will hillary, by the way. >> so, we want a governor as well as you at home to weigh in on that in tonight's fireback question, which last name carries more baggage in 2016? tweet clinton or bush.
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please veto this bill. if you don't take my word for it, listen to both of your state's republican senators, john mccain also wants you to veto this bill. this is the first time the three of us have agreed on anything. so governor, please side with us, please side we quality and veto the bill. now, governor, would you sign or veto this bill? >> veto. >> would you sign or veto this bill? >> i would not sign this bill, i'm focusing on jobs. we need to get the jobs and that's where we are concentrating our efforts. >> i'm outraged because six weeks ago you could get a tax credit for buying a woodburning stove. now the environmental protection agency is proposing new pollution rule that is are so strict and so convoluted they would make literally every wood-burning stove illegal. this is a stunning example of stupid bureaucrats living in a fantasy world punishing every rural american. 13 million homes in this country have wood-burning stoves.
as far as i'm concerned, up with wood stoves, down with the epa. >> well, i would say they better not bring that law to north carolina in the winter. >> or large parts of rural missouri. >> no doubt about it. >> i say up with wood-burning stoves and up with epa. i'm one of the green -- i'm in support of bio mass. that's one of the thing that this rule hasn't gotten in place yet, but hopefully it will. i'm for biomass. i'm sure you are, too. >> we are for all of the above. and i actually had a good meeting with the secretary of interior. we are going to start seismic testing off the coast to start looking for natural gas and rebuild the economy. >> if we can have you back -- >> you are in favor of that, right? >> next time we have you back. before we get out of here, we'll check on the fire-back results. which last name will carry more baggage in 2016? right now 74% of you say bush.
only 26% of you say clinton. governors, what do you think about that? >> bush has way more baggage. >> as simple as that. >> straight shot. >> i mean, you know -- well, 74% of the people agree. he's got the hard position to argue. >> i think they will be judged on their own merits. and jeb bush has done a great job on education in florida and we are using a lot of his stuff in north carolina and florida and making sure that when you are in third grade -- >> it wasn't that bush i was talking about. >> jeb bush. we want people to be able to read in third grade. >> look, i want to thank both governors, jane nixon and pat mccroix. the debate will continue online as well as facebook and twitter. from the left, i'm dan jones. >> from the right, i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." erin burnett outfront starts
right now. next, breaking news, hundreds of angry protesters gathering outside the arizona governor's office saying the state is allowing discrimination against gays in the name of god. plus, a new battle in the war on 1%. tonight one of the richest men in america fighting back. and ted nugent backed out of an interview with me last week, and tonight he's out front live and i'll ask him why he called the president a subhuman mong l mongrel. let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett. we begin this monday with breaking news, anger in arizona tonight. protesters massing